‘Pee-wee As Himself’ Delves Into The Complicated Life Of The Character’s Creator, Paul Ruebens

Matt Wolf admits that there were some struggles in making his documentary film Pee-wee as Himself, which tells the story of comedian Paul Ruebens and the epic character he created.

“My first meeting with Paul, it was clear that there could be a power struggle with this subject because Paul said when I met him, ‘I wanna direct a documentary about myself, but everybody’s advising me against it, and I don’t understand why.’ And I said, ‘well, I’m here to meet with you about me directing a documentary, so why don’t we get to know each other and see if we can conceive of a process?’ And it was a lot of talking and processing to get Paul to sit into that interview chair,” says Wolf.

Once Wolf was able to convince the star to speak with him, he says, “I anticipated it would be a pretty epic conversation. Paul had just an extraordinary recall for details from his childhood, like the color of the wallpaper in his childhood bedroom. He could talk about that for like an hour.”

However, things did not go as Wolf had thought they would with Ruebens “When Paul sat down, he was very rebellious and slippery. He wouldn’t follow my lead with any questions. He wanted snacks, pretzels, lollipops. He would make funny facial expressions and it was a competitive dynamic. I remember I said [to him]

, ‘typically when we do these interviews, people sort of get tired around five hours.’ And he said, ‘I’m not gonna get tired, you’re gonna get tired.’ So it was kind of like game on from the beginning.”

Because of these interactions, Wolf was fearful that the project was going to work, but then he realized that the rebellion was part of the process. “It occurred to me then that this is who Paul is, this is portraiture, but he’s really kind of grappling within himself about how much he’s willing to share.”

Wolf admits that, “I just felt in the zone. I felt determined to get Paul to open up and to be his authentic self. And I was being tested and I wanted to meet my match in a way so I didn’t feel frustrated or exhausted, I felt determined but I also, it was thrilling to go this deep. I don’t know if I ever will, go this deep with another human being to interview them in an intimate way for over 40 hours.”

In terms of the archival material, Wolf says that, “We really had extraordinary, full access. We had over a thousand hours of footage and tens of thousands of photos. Paul himself was really an archivist. He saved most of these tapes in his bedroom, in a temperature controlled bedroom. And he had recordings of almost every public appearance and media appearance he ever did.”

He says that some of the most revelatory material are Ruebens’ home movies from the 1970’s. “He has some of the only stuff we were able to find and boy did we search. And you know, his early relationship with his boyfriend Guy, beautifully rendered on Super 8 and that’s all shot by Paul. So to my knowledge, there was no material that was off limits.”

Wolf points out that Ruebens personal circumstances were very unique in that, “he completely severed himself from his alter ego [of Pee-wee Herman], and that really worked for Paul in terms of maintaining his anonymity and also making Pee-wee a believable character. And that backfired when he was introduced to the world through his mugshot.”

The mugshot hit the public when Ruebens was arrested in 1991 for indecent exposure.

About this topic, Wolf says, “I had no particular memory of that incident, but when I started working on the film, I became aware of how enduring that memory is for so many other people and how that would be people’s first question, not other things about ‘who is this artist behind this character I remember from when I was young,’ but ‘oh, the guy who was arrested.’ And Paul was aware of that. He carried that with him. [And], Paul very much wanted to set the record straight,.”

This turning point and discussion feed into the theme of the film, says Wolf. “I wouldn’t say this is about rehabilitation. I would say it’s more about resilience. Paul was somebody who would keep putting himself out there. And that was pretty extraordinary to me _—to be knocked down and to be rebuked to the level that Paul was. Most people would sort of go into a cave and never come back. And he did, he suffered and withdrew. And that is all devastating to him as he told me. He would come back, he would put himself out there. So Paul was somebody who I think was not focused predominantly on if people liked him. He was focused on being an artist and doing what he does.”

While Ruebens did end giving plenty to the film, it wasn’t exactly all that Wolf was hoping for. “What started as a five-day interview process ended up unfolding over 10 days. And we shot 40 hours of interview. But we never completed that interview. We were scheduled to shoot more.”

Issues sprang up as Wolf and Ruebens went around and around about the narrative, each wanting control. They remained at an impasse for nearly a year when Ruebens finally called and said he wanted to finish the project, quickly.

Wolf spoke with him and was in route to Los Angeles to interview Ruebens a final time when he received word that Ruebens had passed away.

“I got a call from Kelly Bush Novak who was Paul’s publicist, but also a very close friend. And she was like, ‘I tried to get to you before the news broke, I couldn’t, but Paul recorded something for you, for the documentary. And he had things to say, but he ran out of time.’”

Ruebens did leave a message for Wolf as he remembers, “I went into Kelly’s office and she played the audio for me and it was devastating. But, he wanted it to be said, and I had to figure out a way to use that not in a sensational manner. I went back and forth a lot with a lot of ambivalence about where to put that. Finally, the week we were locking picture on the film, I put that audio where it lives now. And we all agreed as collaborators it was the right way to bridge to the ending of the film.”

Discussing what he wants people to take away from Pee-wee as Himself, Wolf ruminates, saying, “I hope that the film positions [Paul] as one of the most groundbreaking performance artists of his generation who in a singular way broke through into mainstream pop culture and that he, I know, transformed me. He transformed how I see the world and where I went as a creative person. And it’s so clear that I am not alone in that feeling. I think people who grew up on Pee-Wee seeing the film, I hope, will help them tap into intangible and specific ways his work was transformative for them.”

He adds, “To me, this isn’t so much about saying Paul Reubens is a genius. I mean, that’s overly idealizing and I don’t like hero worship. It’s more about understanding why many of us have connected to his work and understanding where he lives within a legacy of performance art, television, and also, broader pop culture.”

‘Pee-wee as Himself’ is available for streaming on HBO Max.