Joey Santiago And Paz Lenchantin On New Pixies Album ‘Doggerel,’ Return To The Stage

Following the release of the seventh Pixies studio album Beneath the Eyrie in September 2019, the group was forced off the road in 2020 as the quarantine of early pandemic took hold.

Pivoting, the band eventually shifted gears, moving from tour mode to writing, with singer, guitarist and songwriter Black Francis entering a productive stretch.

“When the delta strain hit, we had to cancel some shows. And my heart just sank. Who knew when we were going to go back out? Finally, it just seemed obvious: let’s just make a new record,” explained bassist and backing vocalist Paz Lenchantin. “He started writing like two months before we went to record and he had like 40 songs,” she said. “We were never that prepared.”

Recorded in Vermont at Guildford Sound, Doggerel (now available on CD, vinyl or cassette and via streaming services via BMG), marks the third Pixies album for both Lenchantin and producer Tom Dalgety, the finished result a batch of a dozen beautifully nuanced songs featuring intricate acoustic moments that nevertheless come together as more mature but still instantly recognizable Pixies moments.

The new album marks the first ever Pixies songwriting credits for guitarist Joey Santiago, who wrote the music for “Dregs of the Wine” and the lyrics on “Pagan Man,” a special guitar purchased during the pandemic looming large in his creative process this time around.

“It wasn’t the guitar that I was actually wanting to get. But I got a really nice one. I think it’s a Martin 0-18. It’s a ¾,” Santiago explained. “The guitar shop had the same kind of couch that I’m sitting on right now. I was playing the guitars on the couch to see how it feels. So the smaller guitar felt better. It was all meant for the couch,” he said. “That contributed to a lot of this album. It made me play.”

I spoke with both Santiago and Lenchantin about the impact of Guilford Sound, working on Doggerel and music as connection as the Pixies, who are wrapping live dates in Japan, launch a tour of Australia and New Zealand on December 2 before moving to Europe in February 2023. Highlights of two separate video calls, lightly edited for both length and clarity, follow below.

So I was reading up on Guilford Sound in Vermont. It’s obviously picturesque. I see that it’s a green studio. What kind of an impact did that location have on Doggerel?

PAZ LENCHANTIN: A studio does make a difference. On my side, it’s the best sounding bass record that I’ve ever done.

Guilford Sound… I don’t know what could have been different because I didn’t do anything different – I used the same bass as I always use (my favorite Fender P bass that I actually got in Chicago). One of my favorite instruments on the planet. It’s my true love to have finally found it. I just will not play anything else. It’s the best sounding bass. It’s a 1965 born June 5th. So what could be different? But somehow at Guilford Sound, it’s the best sound that I’ve ever had out of my bass. Same amp, same everything – but the sound is perfection.

I’ve been hoping for this all my life and then there it was.

There’s some really beautiful moments on this album – these kind of nuanced parts with acoustic flourishes. How would you say that the songwriting has grown here the last few years in particular coming into Doggerel?

JOEY SANTIAGO: I think it’s just grown more mature. It’s crafted better. It’s going in three minutes unbeknownst to us. It’s like, “What is this?” Three minutes. Even when I was putting stuff together here, I was like, “How long is that? I wonder how long that is… Three minutes?! What happened to the short songs?” It’ll be effort for us to write short songs now. Back then, it was just like, “F–k it. It’s a minute and a half. We can’t help it.”

PAZ: This one compared to the other two that I’ve done was unique in the sense that we’re coming from a pandemic and were not knowing what’s going to happen – what our fate is. Are we going to go out with the record that we were supposed to tour? When the delta strain hit, we had to cancel some shows. And my heart just sank. Who knew when we were going to go back out? Finally, it just seemed obvious: let’s just make a new record.

Charles [Thompson] started writing like two months before we went to record and he had like 40 songs. Every day from the day we decided to go into the studio, he was writing another song – mainly like acoustic demo versions.

We were never that prepared. Normally, we have some songs but we’re writing in the studio. This time, it was like Tom Dalgety got the 40 songs and kind of pre-shaped his idea of all of the songs that would work really well together to make an amazing Pixies record. So he decided which ones we should do. And it was about 16 songs.

I don’t like to do too much pre-production because I don’t know what everybody else is going to be doing. But I like to get my hands into the shapes of the songs. When I went in, I just kind of went with my first instinct as a baseline. For me that’s the most important. Because if you overthink it, it starts to sound square.

This time, what was different, is that we spent more time not figuring out songs but just really dialing in the songs and adding things. We were able to think about the songs that were already there and pull the best out of them with our time.

What also made it different is that our relationships have grown at this point. This is Tom’s third record. He pulled the best performances out of us. Because he knows now how we work and how we play and how we approach songs. He doesn’t try to put himself into the record – he really pulls the best out of us.

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So for the first time in over 35 years, Joey has a Pixies writing credit – two in fact. What was it like working on “Dregs of the Wine” and “Pagan Man?”

PAZ: I know! I love that so much. My favorite new thing that happened in this record is to hear what the most psychedelic man that I’ve ever met comes up with in a Pixies record.

“Pagan Man” is just so Joey. You can really see him. You can really get to know him even better by his writing. Because he’s honest. He’s not trying to be anybody else. I don’t think he can be anybody else!

Why did it take this long? I don’t know. Maybe it was the pandemic. Some things did happen that are positive. And, in this case, it could very much be this guitar that he bought – this acoustic guitar that inspired him to write.

Joey, what kind of guitar did you buy and how did it sort of inspire where you took “Dregs of the Wine” musically?

JOEY: It wasn’t the guitar that I was actually wanting to get. But I got a really nice one. I think it’s a Martin 0-18. It’s a ¾.

And it was during the pandemic. The guitar shop had the same kind of couch that I’m sitting on right now. I was playing the guitars on the couch to see how it feels. So the smaller guitar felt better. It was all meant for the couch.

That contributed to a lot of this album. It made me play.

It took me to the path, if you could hear it, of The Who. I came up, unbeknownst to me, with some Townshend chords – sussed chords. So, I just came around to that – my version of “Pinball Wizard.” It’s nothing like it though… I’m insulting the wizard as we speak. (laughs)

Paz, some of my favorite vocals from you on Doggerel are on “Vault of Heaven.” A song like that almost feels like a blank canvas in terms of that backing vocal. How do you go about filling in your parts in that space?

PAZ: I do like spaces. When you said “spaces,” actually, I do like spaces.

Most of the time, there’s this idea where you have to jump on top of a vocal and create a chord and that’s a backup vocal. I usually do like the spaces in between his lead where I can come in with a hook or I can come in with a word that was in a verse in the chorus.

I don’t like to add something just to add something. It’s not about me, it’s about the song. Does this song push forward by me adding something? Does it bring out the song more by me adding something? Is this part hooky? I like to make people sing along personally. I feel like a cheerleader in that sense. Something catchy or fun. And it’s usually the first thing that pops into my mind.

And, again, I don’t overthink it. Because when you do, you’re trying too hard. The song is done really. It’s telling you what it wants – and you just have to hear it. It’s your first instinct for sure.

Paz, you also produced the video for “Vault of Heaven,” working with director Charles Derenne. What was it like working on that video?

PAZ: Charles and I met a long time ago. We did a film together. He chose me to be in his film. It’s a documentary on artists in L.A. I was the only musician in the film. It’s called Sunset 24. I was really honored that he chose me.

I’m really happy that Pixies ask me pretty much for every album, “Do you want to do this video?” And I always say yes. But I also like to work with people and collaborate with people. In this case, I was like “Hey, would you want to do this and work on the script together? I really think that you would be perfect for this.”

I really enjoyed working with him. He uses film! He’s old school. He’s French. He’s psychedelic in the way that I like, where it’s raw and funny. And wow. I was really impressed with what he did. Especially when he takes what you present to a different place. And that’s what makes a really good director. He’s awesome.

That was shot on 16mm. The only one I ever shot in video was the “Human Crime” one. The “Classic Masher” is Super 8. “Long Rider,” the surf one, is 16.

I like film. It’s an old school, classic look. And you can see it.

After the strangeness of the last two and a half years, what was it like finally being able to get back on stage in front of actual fans?

JOEY: Whew! First off, I never believed it was going to happen until we were on stage. I never knew if we were going to make it on stage – every show. I said to myself, “If we could make it to Tel Aviv – and play Tel Aviv – then we’re on tour.” And I don’t know how many shows in that was – maybe three weeks into the tour and we had 11 weeks to go. But that was the canary in the coal mine. And that was it. That’s how it felt. It felt great to be out – but, at the same time, it was like, “Is it going to happen?”

PAZ: Sometimes you have to bend your knees to jump – actually every time. You have to go down to go up further.

In my experience of what happened, sometimes things are blessings without knowing. On the art side of things, taking a break is like a cleanse before a whole new cycle. For myself, I think it benefited. The last tour that we did, the last leg – three months on the road every day – we are sounding better than ever. Charles looks amazing. Everyone looks incredible. Joey’s sobriety has jumped him up. He’s just like… I’m turning him up in my monitors like, “Yeah!”

My experience being a replacement – I don’t feel that anymore, you know? It’s this thing where I’m coming in and I’m 100% a Pixie. That transformation has occurred. And it feels more confident than ever. This record is the best one since the 90s. I’m very proud of it.

I was very heartbroken to not tour Beneath the Eyrie. But my philosophy in life is when you lose something, make the next one even better. And then you feel better. And it’s always been that way. And I really feel that this record is exactly that.

How important a role is it for music, especially live music, to bring people together and connect people?

PAZ: That is 100% very important – bringing people together. We’re all ready. We all need it. Music is so important for healing. It’s so important to forget about a lot of things too and bring people together. And that’s what we need right now.

JOEY: Yeah. I thought we had something. I did. As corny as it would sound – I can’t even believe I’m saying this – but part of what we were going to do on tour was we were going to contribute to, “Let’s get back to normalcy. Let’s get everyone back to normal.”

Joey, obviously there was a time where the Pixies approaching 40 seemed kind of unthinkable. But here we are. What does that kind of longevity mean to you especially coming out of the odd last two years we all encountered?

JOEY: To me, I equate it to this… when I go to a music shop and I look at the guitars – all of the guitars – and go, “What are the chances of these guitars going to play at Glastonbury and continuing to be in the road case for 40 years?” Probably none. You’d have to go to like 80 stores to find one.

I’m just in the middle of it. So, I really don’t know. But it is unbelievable that it’s going to be 40 – I’ll grant that. That is a damn feat for a band to last this long.