“History That Hasn’t Been Told” BAFTA-Nominated Actress Ruth Madeley Discusses “Then Barbara Met Alan”

I had the pleasure of chatting with BAFTA-nominated actress Ruth Madeley. Co-writer Jack Thorne approached Madeley to play Disability Activist Barbara Lisicki in the BBC Two film Then Barbara Met Alan.

Then Barbara Met Alan is a one-off drama that explores the true story of how Lisicki and her partner Alan Holdsworth (played by Arthur Hughes) founded DAN, which stands for Disabled People’s Direct Action Network. This organization lead protests for Disability Rights in the U.K. The campaign eventually led to the first protection against disability discrimination in the U.K. in 1995, the Disability Discrimination Act.

What was it like being able to play an ambulatory wheelchair user?

I did a drama called Years and Years on BBC. That was the first time I had been able to highlight ambulatory wheelchair users in a big drama series. And that was important to me because, in the past, I had been told, “Oh no, you’re going to confuse the audience with all this, you’re going to confuse the viewers. It’s just easier if you stay in your chair.”

In Years and Years, the producers, directors, and writers, we all agreed it made sense for Rosie [my character] to move precisely the way I do, and I’m ambulatory. I walk around my house, but I use my wheelchair whenever I leave the house. So it just made perfect sense to keep her the same as mine.

And then with this one, with Then Barbara Met Alan, Barbara was ambulatory. I’m not 100% sure of her mobility now, I know that she’s not as ambulatory as she was, but back then, she could walk quite a lot more than when she was younger, so I know that it was important to her to show that as well.

I think the first time there was a fantastic actress called Lisa Hammond. So I remember her character moving around her space in her flats, and I was like the late 20s when I saw that, and I was like, “Oh my God, how have I not seen this on-screen before?” And it makes a difference, doesn’t it? Because you’re like, “Yeah, that’s me. That’s me. I can do that.” And it does adds another layer to what people think disability looks like. So yeah.

As Disabled people, we’re so used to having to divulge our medical details. I think it’s ridiculous. Well, in no other world, we’re anybody expects any other person to divulge any medical information. But, still, yeah, we have to justify it regularly, and it is exhausting. But what a privilege to be in this industry where we can highlight that and show it on mainstreams television, which is great.

What was it like working on set with so many other Disabled professionals?

Do you know something, a lot of times, people think disability representation is just what you see on screen, and that’s so not the case. We had two writers from the disabled community. We had a disabled co-director, a disabled producer, so many people behind the scenes who had so many different disabilities, and that was really important to all of us because how many times do you go on set where you’ve got any heads of department that have a disability, and it’s so rare, and we really need to open up that side of the industry as well to make that more accessible, not just being in front of the camera and not just the acting or presenting side of things.

So yeah, although locations had to be fully vetted for access and yeah, well, you know something, we ran into some problems. Of course, we did. It’s the first time this has been done on this scale before, but the more you do it, the more you learn and the better it gets, and we definitely did exactly the same and were able to submit what was great and what we did struggled with. And for the next project, it was just an absolute joy to be on set with that many disabled people in one go, and it shouldn’t have felt revolutionary, but it really did.

It was an absolute joy. It was a joy and a real honour to be working with people who are just starting their journey in this industry and people I’ve looked up to for so long. We’ve got Liz Carr, Matt Fraser, people who I have watched from afar and thought were absolute rock stars, and to be able to share a story with them was a dream.

We had so many people who were actual protestors there who were… As I say, he’s on the show. That’s bucket list stuff to work with people who are actually there. You never usually get that firsthand experience so incredible.

What can other productions learn from this film?

I think for too long, the idea of having that many disabled people in one production has given people anxiety attacks when it would be too expensive; it’d be dangerous. It would be all of these things. And we made this film in three weeks. We did three weeks and looked at what we created in a really short amount of time and with that many disabled people. And it was an absolute joy. Nobody died, nobody had an accident because we didn’t cost everyone a ton of money. It’s our job. We’re actors. We go to work, we do our work, and we come home, and that’s no different to any non-disabled actor. All that needed to happen was access requirements were put in place before production started.

And if that’s done, literally, all we have to do is concentrate on our job, what we were hired to do. We don’t have to worry about things being inaccessible. We don’t have to worry about having those conversations like, “Oh, where’s the accessible toilet? Or where’s this, that, and the other.” And it has this being catered for. Because everything like that should be taken care of before filming even happens or before it even starts. And I think a really good thing to take away from what we created was the importance of having access audits.

I know that Jack [Thorne] and Genevieve [Barr] are in their team. They’re doing these incredible things with underlying health conditions, their new movement and Screen Skills and I’ll come up with the training Accessibility Coordinators, which all production should have because, I mean, my disability is easy, it’s visible, and people know that I’m going to need a ramp and accessible toilet. But for people with invisible disabilities, there’s a whole array of things that they might need because you can’t see them. You just think it’s not even a thing.

Having an Accessibility Coordinator on set would just take away everybody’s worry, everybody’s concern with whose responsibility it is or who we go to, all of those things. So to have that kind of role in place, I think, is a really good takeaway and something that production should be looking at in the future. But also from an acting perspective, I guess, understanding just how powerful and accessible disabled stories are. People often think that if you’re telling a story that’s about disability, it’s just for a disabled audience, and that’s not the case. These characters were incredible whether they had a disability or not. They were just really interesting, fiery, flawed, beautiful characters.

And as actors, that’s what you want to play overtime, just such great characters. So yeah, I guess taking away from it, the importance of telling disabled stories, because this is just one disabled story, there are loads out there that are just as interesting. So telling disabled stories but also putting disabled actors at the forefront of drama, disabled people can lead drama, whether that’s in a disabled story or whether that’s in a story where disability is incidental, disabled actors can lead, and they should be doing more of it.

Why is it important to tell both the stories of Disabled people’s history and the incidental stories where disabled people are included?

I think people often feel that to have authentic disabled representation. You shouldn’t mention disability at all. And it just is that, no, mention it. It’s part of it. It’s great, but it doesn’t always have to be the main focus. And I think there’s room for both. I think there is room for drama. Of course, there is across the board. Films, drama-comedy, where you have an actor who has some kind of disability, whatever that may be. Suppose that’s part of the story, great. Suppose it isn’t, fine.

But also, don’t be afraid to tell those disabled stories because they’ve not been told because this industry has not been accessible to us for so long. So there is a whole wealth of stories. There are so many stories that you can tap into that haven’t been done yet, and they will be done, and they’ll be done in a really fantastic way. It was the first time they’d stepped on set for some of those actors, and I’m like, “I’m going to be watching you lead shows in five years, and I’m so excited for it.”

You had a very untraditional start in the industry… How has it evolved?

Complete accident.

I always say that you end up where you’re meant to end up. I always say that, and I, without any hesitation, know that I was meant to do this. I was absolutely meant to do this. I’ve always known that I wanted to be part of the industry, but I just always thought it would be through writing. I never thought it would be in front of camera. And obviously, it turned out incredibly different, and I’m so thankful for that. But also my presence in the industry has also allowed me to look at how many obstacles would’ve been in my way if this had been my only dream as a kid. Drama schools are notoriously inaccessible, and funding for that is notoriously inaccessible.

There are so many things that if you are 12 or 13 years old and say, “I want to be an actor,” and you’re disabled, it is ten times harder. And I just feel very privileged with the work that I’m doing now that I’m able to hopefully make this industry a lot more accessible for people who are coming in after me. But yeah, from an acting point of view, I hope I’ve improved. I definitely want to improve on every job that I go on. I’m a bit like a sponge. I’m that annoying person who goes around going, “What does this do? What does that do? What’s your job?” Constantly learning from everyone around me. And what a privilege it is to do that.

And I don’t think I’ve ever learned more than I have on this set, on this particular job. Then, Barbara Met Alan, I could have been on that double what we were on it, and I wouldn’t have got bored. I just love learning from everyone around me because I usually have the least experience in technical acting ability.

So it’s always a real privilege for me to learn from people around me and provide any kind of help or guidance to people who want to learn from my work. So yeah, just absolute joy and an incredibly beautiful mistake to be where I am now.

What was it like for you and Barbara, two Disabled women who are both affecting history in different ways, to meet and chat?

First and foremost, when you find out that you’re going to be playing a real person, that adds a level of pressure and responsibility that scared the shit out of me. But again, as an actor, you want that challenge. You want that responsibility. And I really did take that. I don’t take myself seriously, but I take my job seriously, and I really did take Barbara’s story seriously. And I wanted to do the whole thing justice because I know it’s a part of history that hasn’t been told in the mainstream, and it should be.

We’re not taught about this in school first and foremost, so I had this massive sense of responsibility, but also on a shame, I believe great sense, a fangirling going on. She’s just such a powerhouse. And because of the work that she and the rest of the DAN team did, I was able to grow up as a young adult with rights. I mean, I was a kid when they were out doing what they were doing, so I was very busy with spice girls and took that and all these and all of those things that were really interesting at that time. So I had no knowledge really that… I was privileged in that I didn’t realize how few rights I had as a kid, and I grew up in my teens having disability discrimination out behind me because of the work of Barbara and the DAN network.

And what a dream to actually meet somebody like that. I mean, one, there was the level of watching her without looking, being too creepy, because I’m trying to mimic in my head what she’s doing with her voice and her mannerisms from an acting perspective, but also just disabled woman to disabled woman, it’s like having a glass of wine.

Yeah. She’ll think she is probably one of the most incredible people I’ve ever met, and I was just so thankful that she liked me because it all would’ve gone south if she hadn’t, can you imagine?

To those saying, “I wish this was a series. I wish this was on BBC One.” What is your response?

I mean, with being incredibly respectful to everyone who works on this, getting commissioned anyway, I just look at this as when you’re playing such a great character, you want it to last forever. I mean, I was like, “This show needs to be three hours, everybody.” Jack Thorne has spoken very openly about this being the first disabled drama that has been done on a full drama budget. And he’s Jack Thorne. I mean, he can get anything commissioned. Come on. But to have this be the first time. It’s 2022, and this is the first time that something was funded properly in that respect is a big step, and now it’s just like we need production companies, commissioners to just keep going and create series like this or longer dramas like this. And things that you can delve even deeper into.

I mean, I am trying to convince everybody that we need a sequel to this with all the donors. So I mean, how good would that be? Let’s face it. But yeah, it’s always a really good thing when people want more. And I think seeing so many people say they wanted more out of it is a really great sign of just what disabled people can create, and the appetite is there for more.

And that’s not just from the disabled community, that’s from critics, that’s from other people who’ve said that they want more, and that’s a real testament to the work that everyone did on set. So I would never see people wanting more like constructive criticism. I’d see that as a very positive thing.

What can the industry as a whole learn from this project?

Again, I think that disabled actors can lead. I think there need to be more disabled actors in lead roles, whatever the story is. I can’t wait to see where Arthur’s [Arthur Hughes] career takes him. I just think he’s incredible. And I know he’s going to just completely skyrocket now. I’ve told him he couldn’t forget me when that happens. He’s not allowed to block my number. I think taking away just the high level of talent that we found for this drama is incredible.

I think too often people assume that authentic disability representation means that you find some random disabled person on the street and shove them in a film. I’m like, “Well, no, there’s disabled actors. We’re talking about disabled actors who do this for a living, who have trained in this,” or, well, in my case, not. People who do this for a living. We’re not just finding random people on the street. We’re finding people who want to do this, who are doing this, who are making money from this.

And in that drama, they’ve proven why that’s their job. It’s because they’re absolutely fantastic at it. So I hope that’s a big takeaway, just the high level of talent and the importance of having disabled people off-screen, especially directing and producing and having… Yeah, there’s just so much I hope people take away. There’s just so much, I mean, look, there’s nothing bad that can be taken away from it. That’s just it, isn’t it?

There’s nothing bad that can be taken away from that whole thing. Nothing. There’s nothing.

When you are still in character as Barbara on the bus, then the real Barbara is there, and everyone is celebrating. There’s even a disabled person driving the bus! What was it like to film that?

I’m not going to lie, Keely, I was an emotional wreck that entire day.

I’d seen that scene on paper over a year’s worth of draft and in the script. So I knew it was coming, and I knew it would be this big moment, but to actually be there and film it, I was an emotional wreck, an absolute wreck. It just was so overwhelming, it was beautiful, and it was really powerful. And yeah, to have Barbara there next to me was a really special moment.

What’s next for you?

I’m going to do that really [frustrating] actor thing where the guy simply can’t say. But no, I have got stuff coming up, and when I’m allowed to talk about it, I will absolutely call you. But yeah, filming a documentary at the minute has been great. I can’t say too much about what it’s about, but I filmed a documentary back in 2017, so this is my great second one.

But I’m also writing, which I have to remind myself that, you know what? You were inactive before all this nonsense, so you actually should put your degree to some use. And so I’ve been trying to do that, which is great working with some great, great people on some really cool ideas. So I’m just really excited. This year’s going to be mega, and yeah, Then Barbara Met Alan was just the best way to start the year, I guess. I said the year is not going to start for me until that’s when the film comes out, and it has now.

You can watch When Barbara Met Alan on the BBCIplayer.