LONDON, ENGLAND – NOVEMBER 20: Julia Michaels attends the UK Premiere of Walt Disney Animation … [+]
For many songwriters and music producers, getting the call from Disney to work on songs for an upcoming animated feature is a dream come true. The films studio has a track record of churning out some of the most beloved movie tunes in history, ones which have gone on to top the charts and win a slew of awards, including many Best Original Song Oscars.
In fact, for any musical artist who has hopes of one day completing their EGOT—the acronym for Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and Tony, the four major awards in the entertainment industry—perhaps the best shot at doing so is with a song in a Disney flick.
Of course, being asked to join the creative team behind an animated movie with a budget that’s well into the hundreds of millions of dollars comes with a lot of pressure. Whether spoken or not, there’s a hope that any songs written for a new film will not only better the picture, but become standards, à la “Let It Go” from Frozen or “We Don’t Talk About Bruno” from Encanto, to name a few recent examples.
When they signed on to work on Disney’s new animated film Wish, Julia Michaels and Benjamin Rice were well aware of this legacy, and they wanted to become a notable part of it.
“I obviously felt the pressure of the legacy of Disney,” Michaels admitted during a recent interview about the process of creating the songs featured in Wish, which opened on November 22. Her collaborator, Rice, agrees, and said that they had to find a way to deal with it while working. “I think it was helpful to try to detach from that pressure as best we could and lift each other up” he shared during the same conversation.
Michaels had even more pressure on her during the process, if that’s possible. “I was told during our journey that I’m the youngest person to ever do all of the songs for a Disney animated film,” she shared. “That obviously weighed on me in a lot of ways, but I’m grateful to be able to say that I got to do this.”
If the two were nervous about their work, it doesn’t come through in the final product. The seven original songs featured in Wish are a healthy blend of the standard sweeping score and inspirational feeling that the music in Disney movies is so well known for, but they don’t feel old. Michaels and Rice were able to mix things up, bringing a fresh style and songwriting cadence to the tried-and-true formula that still works as well today as it did decades ago.
I spoke with both Michaels and Rice ahead of the release of Wish about the making of these songs, how they didn’t throw any out, and what they’re thinking in terms of the Oscar conversation.
Hugh McIntyre: Tell me how you both came to be involved in this movie.
Julia Michaels: We started working on this in the pandemic, actually. I got a call from a Tom McDougall at Disney and he was like, you know, we have our Lin-Manuels and our Lopezes. We have our greats, but we kind of want to try some new stuff and would you be interested? And I was like, oh my gosh, like what a dream come true! The pressure! Yes, I’d love to try.
Ben and I have been working together for a really long time. I think we like to say around nine years we’ve been working together. We’ve done songs on my record together–records plural–and when it came time to start getting into the music, I was like there’s no other person that I want to do this with other than Ben.
Benjamin Rice: It’s very sweet of her to say that, and there’s no other person that I would have rather done it with. And also, Tom made a very good decision by tapping Julia. It’s been an amazing process, and she’s absolutely killed it. It’s been my pleasure to be a part of it with her.
McIntyre: Ben, what did you think when you got the call from Julia asking to be a part of this?
Rice: Because we’ve been friends for so long–I think we settled on eight or nine years, let’s say nine years.
Michaels: Give or take.
Rice: It’s not uncommon. We talk all the time. So when she called me, there’s no way for me to know what she’s asking about. I answered the phone. You can correct me if I’m wrong, Julia. I think I was hanging panels and doing work in the middle of a pandemic, scratching my head about what the hell’s going on in the world.
So when she called to invite me to be a part of this with her, it couldn’t have come at a better time. I didn’t need time to think about it. I was very happy to say, oh, well, of course, I’d be honored to be a part of this with you. And three years later, we’re talking to you. So we did something right.
McIntyre: Did Disney give you the movie and you then wrote songs to go with it? How did that work?
Michaels: We would have these meetings every Thursday and we would talk about the film. We would talk about places where they wanted songs, who they wanted songs for. It was a very collaborative experience. We would all talk about the emotions of one character, the feelings of another character, the essence of somebody. Sonically, what they should feel like, what they should sound like. And we would, Ben and I, would go back to the drawing board and compile everything together and take the pieces of all of our conversations that we really loved and then turn it into a song.
Rice: They gave us so much information–helpful information–but they kept it open, so it allowed us to still be creative and brainstorm as to what it could be. They were also incredibly open to new ideas and collaborative. If Julia felt a different direction might be better, and we started something like that and pitched it, there was a freedom to try things, which was really, really cool.
McIntyre: How many of these weekly meetings did you have? Do you have to keep coming back and discussing?
Michaels: We did every Thursday for the last two years.
Rice: That’s it. Yeah. I think that when you say it out loud, it sounds really strange. But yes, I think we went to one every Thursday.
Michaels: It became so normal to us that when they stopped, it was kind of jarring.
Rice: Julia, you always said it feels like we’re going to the principal’s office. But as soon as it was over, it’s like, well, that’s it. There’s no more need. It’s just weird. Strange.
Michaels: Yeah, it was so strange. I went back to the Disney Animation building recently, and I hadn’t been there in a while. It was so strange how much like home it felt, because we spent so much of our lives there. Got to know all of these people that we worked on this film with and walked through the halls and going into certain rooms and knowing exactly where everybody is and saying hi. It does feel like family there.
Rice: If I’m driving nearby, I almost feel inclined to show up and just grab a cup of coffee.
McIntyre: I can only assume that when you get that call from Disney and you start working on it, you’re toeing a line, especially a Disney animated film like this. You’re toeing the line between infusing your artistry and doing something a bit different. But also there’s a legacy there and there’s sort of an expectation. Can you talk a bit about your inspirations? Was it past Disney songs, or did you like purposely try to not listen to anything or watch anything?
Michaels: I grew up a Disney kid, so I think Disney is sort of ingrained in everything that I do a little bit. Naturally, in doing a Disney film, I’ve definitely taken that with me.
I obviously felt the pressure of the legacy of Disney and the music of Disney and the music that’s come before me. Which my imposter syndrome loves to remind me.
I often think about the legacy of Disney and what Disney songs and Disney movies are. And they are all about believing that you can do something and trying and daring to try and wishing on things. I’ve really taken that into my life as well. I tend to be more insecure than I should be. I think I really need that confidence boost.
Being in the Disney family and being inspired by Disney…and also the main character of this film, she’s an ordinary girl that dares to try and be bold and courageous and selfless for the people in her town. I think that’s such a beautiful thing.
So yes, I’ve definitely had some Disney influences, but I come from the pop world. I’ve always loved pop music. I tried to make these songs feel really classic and beautiful, but also really modern and fun.
Rice: It feels impossible to have a childhood and not be touched by Disney films. The Lion King was a first for me when I was a kid, that I’ll never forget. Something about the visuals and the music lining up in a way, and storytelling… It makes an impression on you that you don’t forget.
The best thing that I remember [directors] Chris [Buck] and Fawn [Veerasunthorn] saying to us was, “We hired you guys. Just to be yourselves.” As far as dealing with the pressure of how do you line up in the legacy of everything? It’s a lot of pressure. I think it was helpful to try to detach from that pressure as best we could and lift each other up. Their advice to just be yourselves, and Julia coming from the pop world and being so gifted at her songwriting, we can just lean into that and figure it out along the way.
Michaels: Also, Ben is a drummer. When they were like, yeah, be yourself, Ben was like, drums!
Rice: The next song that we worked on, that comment was in my brain, I was like, well, time to start! Let me give them some drums. That’d be a fun place to start.
McIntyre: There are seven original songs in this soundtrack. So if seven made the cut and are in the movie, how many did you write in total?
Michaels: Seven.
Rice: Seven for seven, baby. Game seven.
McIntyre: Wow, batting a hundred.
Michaels: Seven, actually. Yeah, that was it.
Rice: We laugh because we can’t believe it either, right? You do one, you do two, three, like, oh God, how many can we keep? And we just kept working, kept working, kept working. I went on a walk last night and laughed out loud to myself at the realization that it’s done. We did all seven.
Michaels: It still doesn’t make sense to me that it’s over.
McIntyre: There was nothing that you started and decided, no, this isn’t the right tone, this isn’t right for the character, we have to trash it, we have to start over? Or something you delivered and Disney said no? It all worked?
Michaels: There were a couple of times when we had started something and we would be like, I don’t know if this is right. We would try the same thing on a different feeling, and then we would always go back to the first feeling and be like, no, this is right, let’s just hone it and try and perfect it. Ultimately that’s what they ended up being. But no, there weren’t any songs where we had pitched them and they said no.
Rice: Going to the principal’s office every Thursday, it can be terrifying to trust those instincts.
Michaels: Especially if they sing the songs for the first time, you’re like, oh my gosh, are they going to like this? And anytime I would see Jennifer Lee [Chief Creative Officer at Walt Disney Animation Studios] cry or laugh, then I was like, oh, okay, I think she likes it. Thank goodness. We can breathe.
McIntyre: Were you at all involved in studio sessions as people were recording? Or was your job done at a certain point and then it was out of your hands?
Rice: No, all of it. We did all of it.
Michaels: All the things. Ben actually recorded everybody.
Rice: We were there for all those sessions. Julia and I, we enjoy that process. When you’re producing and trying to create something, you don’t really know unless you’re trying things and finding it on the journey. We’ve worked that way together since we’ve been working together. We have our own kind of understanding and vision of trying to make it something. And I’m really glad that Disney had us be a part of that process because then we were able to be a part of it from the beginning to the very end up until the last mix in the movie. That was a really, really unique experience for sure.
McIntyre: I don’t expect an answer to this, but do you have a favorite among the songs?
Michaels: Can you choose your favorite kids?
McIntyre: Yes!
Rice: You’re not supposed to say yes!
McIntyre: That’s why I wasn’t really expecting, but maybe there’s one that meant something in particular to you as you worked on it?
Michaels: They all mean different things to me. It’s hard to choose. They really all mean different things.
Rice: It’s like having seven children and you’re never going to be able to have a favorite because they’re so important in all their individual ways. Or seven incredible cars. You just like driving all of them.
McIntyre: Same thing.
Rice: Same exact thing.
McIntyre: I imagine when you get brought onto this… I would be so intimidated because, as we said, there’s a legacy. And not only that, but Disney has produced not just great songs, but huge hits. Grammy winners, Oscar winners. So, were you at all intimidated to step into this? And do you have any expectations for what these songs might do?
Michaels: Obviously very intimidated. I was told during our journey that I’m the youngest person to ever do all of the songs for a Disney animated film. That obviously weighed on me in a lot of ways, but I’m grateful to be able to say that I got to do this.
I have no expectations. I just hope that people love these songs and they feel connected to these songs. And they find a little bit of themselves in these songs. I know that we worked really hard on these songs and I’m really proud of them. We went through a lot of beautiful moments and existential crises to write these songs.
Rice: Ditto.
Michaels: Would I love to be nominated for an Oscar? Yes! Would that be the coolest thing that’s ever happened in my life? Yes! Do I expect it? No.
McIntyre: We’re in that time of year. A song has been chosen and the campaign’s beginning. You have to be aware that this is being pushed.
Michaels: I mean, yes, but just the idea of being nominated for an Oscar is so gigantic that that happening for Ben and I just sounds like…what?
Rice: It’s not a part of our process along the way. To put so much of yourself into it, to try to stare in the face of that pressure and that legacy, and just to do our absolute very best… To be even having this conversation now, it’s a real thing, you know?
Michaels: We went through a pandemic through this film. Went through a strike through this film. I had heart surgery during this film. I had my gallbladder removed during this film. We really went through it during this movie. So to be nominated for an Oscar would be really beautiful in terms of everything that happened in the last three years. It would be nice. Like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting! We did it!
Rice: I did not have heart surgery, but I did get a few crazy braids in my beard, which coincidentally I liked, so I guess it worked out.
McIntyre: That’s gonna get you the vote for sure.
Michaels: Without a doubt.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2023/11/24/disneys-wish-songwriters-talk-living-up-to-the-legacy-and-oscar-dreams/