TV Icon Sharon Gless Is Ready For Her Next Chapter With Few ‘Complaints’

Award-winning icon Sharon Gless doesn’t sugarcoat things in her acclaimed memoir, Apparently There Have Been Complaints.

The no holds barred book, which is arriving in paperback, published by Simon and Schuster, charts the successes and struggles she has experienced in her life and groundbreaking career.

“I had to write it looking in a mirror, looking at the real me, without the booze and the drugs and nothing to cover my heart and my soul,” she told me. “I’m still standing, and I’m better for what was said. At the time, I did not think of it as being better for me because my feelings kept getting hurt.”

I caught up with Gless to discuss the book, the influence of Cagney and Lacey and Queer as Folk, her drinking, and her plans for the future. Rest assured, the ending of her story is far from written.

Simon Thompson: When the book came out in hardback, you took it out on the road.

Sharon Gless: It was a rough tour because of Covid.

Thompson: When you take a book out on the road, you never know what the response will be. What surprised you most about that experience?

Gless: I guess it was people’s positive reaction to it. It’s a very personal thing to me. I didn’t know what a tour would look like. My publicists were disappointed because, due to Covid, you could never do anything live. Nobody was letting you in their studios, and I couldn’t go into many bookstores, but what surprised me was how much people liked it. It’s just my meanderings, but people would tell me they related to it and had gone through the same kind of things. That did surprise me because I thought I was the only one. I guess we all think we’re so special, but it wasn’t being special. I thought I was the only one with a grandmother like mine. I loved her, but it was very painful, and I’m changed because of her for the better. This is not a book about abuse. There’s no physical abuse involved, thank God, but I took a lot of knocks.

Thompson: How did the book come about?

Gless: When Simon and Schuster asked me to write the book, I thought, ‘Okay.’ I read one chapter to them. The door to the president’s office was open, and the assistant down the hall burst out laughing. When I first was asked to do the book, there was this expression that I had in my life that was, ‘Apparently there were complaints,’ and it was in answer to my having been in rehab. There was a lot of scandal about it in the 80s, and it was after I was playing Christine Cagney, and she was a drunk also. It was rather cruelly brought to my attention that I might want to look into my problem. Later somebody came up to me and said, ‘You were at Hazelden?’ It was the Harvard of rehabs, and I said, ‘Yeah, apparently there were complaints.’ I was trying to make light of it, and my husband, Barney Rosenzweig, who was not my husband at the time, was standing there, and he burst out laughing. It became an expression of mine, so when I was asked to write the book, I thought that’s what I’ll write about, all the complaints about me.

Thompson: The book is called Apparently There Were Complaints, but you don’t seem to have many of your own.

Gless: I have some, but I didn’t write about those. I wrote about the complaints about me. I never think of complaints. Now that I’m thinking and talking to you, sure, I have complaints (laughs). I’m still standing, and I’m better for what was said. At the time, I did not think of it as being better for me because my feelings kept getting hurt. As I look at my life and see what became of it and the good fortune I’ve had in this industry, those things were good.

Thompson: How easy was it to be so candid in the book? You don’t hold back.

Gless: Once I decided this was what I was going to do, it was very easy. I remembered some of the things I talked about instantly, but remembering them as they went along my life, having to look at those complaints, was a little harder. Writing the book and coming out with all the bad things about me really didn’t bother me. At my age, I’m saying, so what? I’m still standing, and I’ve had an amazing career, and because of some of those complaints, I became a success because I was tough enough to take it. I just thought it was it was a good idea. What was hard, and I say it towards the end of the book, was that I was writing with no cover. I had to write it in a mirror, looking at the real me, without the booze and the drugs and nothing to cover my heart and soul. I don’t mean the drink and drugs do that because they don’t. They just distort everything, so I’m not recommending it. There was no veneer. I had to tell every story with the harshness of that mirror.

Thompson: You’ve said many times that you didn’t realize the impact on people when it came to the work that you were doing. You started as a Universal contract player earning $186 a week. At that point, did you think you’d made it? Was it when you did Cagney and Lacey or other shows, or have you never really felt that?

Gless: I never thought, ‘Well, now I’ve made it,’ because if I said that, it would mean I was done, and I didn’t want to be finished. I still want to work. You asked about complaints, and that’s my biggest complaint. It’s hard getting work at my age, but I just finished two projects. The industry has been very good to me, and I want to keep doing it until I can’t do it anymore because it’s what I do best. It sounds small of me, but there’s nothing else I love doing more. The fact that I got into this business without experience was a miracle. I was spotted in a little play in the Encino Community Theatre, and the reason I got attention was because I made a mistake. It was the first time I’d ever done anything on stage; I had never acted in my life, made a mistake, missed a cue, and came out half-dressed. The audience misunderstood the mistake and thought I was a brilliant comedian. They went crazy, and my co-workers were laughing, but I was dying. I got signed to Universal Studios for ten years because of that one mistake on stage. If any actor ever asks, ‘Well, how do I get into the business?’ I would say, ‘Just do it. Do community theatre. Act anywhere you can because you never know who is in that room.’

Thompson: Watching Cagney and Lacey was something we did as a family every single week. On the show, Christine saying she was an alcoholic was the first time I had seen it presented in that way and by a woman. It was often presented as a male issue and in a comedic way. Did you realize at the time that it would be quite so groundbreaking?

Gless: It was just another milestone for the show, but we were achieving many milestones, specifically for women. Because a show like that had never been attempted, it wasn’t hard to highlight original problems. There had never been any male or female hero on a TV show who had a problem, a specific physical problem. That was the nature of the show, which became much more personal. We did some research, and I liked it because it was the first time that a character on the show had a secret like this. Alcoholism is always a secret until it is divulged. We discovered that whenever a man gets drunk at a party, he’s considered amusing. Whenever a woman gets drunk at a party, she’s an embarrassment. That just wasn’t right, and it wasn’t fair. It’s a disease that a lot of people have. Cagney was drinking through all the years of the show, but she was a social drinker and was lots of fun. Her father was a drunk, so towards the end of our years of doing it, it seemed correct that we discussed her problem. Someone interviewing me said, ‘Do you know that Chris Cagney is the adult child of an alcoholic?’ and I said, ‘No, I didn’t know that.’ She said, ‘Oh, yes,’ and she listed all the things, so I went to Barney, who was the producer, and said, ‘Did you know that Cagney is the adult child of an alcoholic?’ He said, ‘Honey, you’re the one playing it?’ I told him all the attributes, and he said, ‘We didn’t write that stuff. You’re the one playing it with all that stuff going on. Do you want to look into it? You always said you didn’t want Cagney to be a victim.’ So he had writers come up with an amazing script, and he showed it to me and said, ‘Please don’t show it to anyone. No one has seen it, including Tyne (Daly).’ So I saw it and came back the next day, and I said, ‘It’s brilliant. Who are you going to get to play it?’ It was so daunting. I didn’t know if I could take it on. It was rough. I don’t know if you ever saw the two-parter they did on that, but it was physically and emotionally very rough. Proudly, I went there.

Thompson: When it comes to challenges, you’ve gone there a number of times in your career. You did that again in Queer as Folk. You’ve been a constant favorite with the LGBTQ+ community, but that was not a deliberate thing. Why do you think there is this kinship and affinity?

Gless: I have courage. Some of the scenes that I played took courage. Also, and I know this sounds like such a cliche, but some of my best friends are gay; however, until I did Queer as Folk, I never knew many of the profound problems the gay community had. We just went out, drank, had a good time, and laughed. When I got to be in the show, I learned things socially. I never knew that the community was going through all the problems, and I really got on board. Despite her mouth and looks and everything, she was a fabulous character, but what I learned in the role was that a lot of the television audience was learning along with me. I’m still very active in the gay community.

Thompson: You pick your parts very carefully. It was only on the third approach that you agreed to play Christie in Cagney and Lacey.

Gless: The first time I was asked, I didn’t want to do it. I’d already played a cop in a pilot, and it didn’t sell. The second time, I was busy and unable to do it. The third time, finally, I got smart and accepted it. Barney says actors are not always the best judges of material (laughs), but I accepted it happily, and it was undoubtedly a turning point in my career and life. The first feminist I ever met was Barney Rosenzweig. It was not a subject that producers leaned on at the time, but then I walked into the show, met Tyne and Barney, and my life changed in every way.

Thompson: So what were the alternatives to Cagney and Lacey at the time?

Gless: I wanted to be in movies because I was raised here in Hollywood and was a sucker for the Klieg lights in the sky. I always thought, ‘I’m going to be in films,’ and then this commitment to another series came along. I didn’t know what I was about to walk into. I had no idea what my life would become and how my life would change. All through my jobs, I’ve learned to act as I go, but I had the wonderful Tyne Daly to work off. She would direct me in drama, and I’d direct her in comedy, and we just had this great relationship. We can surprise each other, and we try to. We didn’t have time to be friends. It was a love affair on camera. Many people thought we didn’t like each other and wanted to dream up these horror stories. It wasn’t true. We liked each other very much. We are friends now because the shooting isn’t getting in our way, but 18 hours a day was a long haul, and there was no scene that one of us was not in. That’s how it was devised. What did I learn? I learned the power of performance, friendship, and feminism, and I learned about excellence in television. I still think television is the most powerful medium in the world. We go into everybody’s homes, you know?

Thompson: You mention that you wanted to do movies, but a considerable chunk of your career has been in television. Television is what everybody from film is trying to get into now.

Gless: No s**t (laughs). Pardon me. All the big movie stars who can’t get jobs and are my age are all flying to television now. Bravo, welcome, because it is a fantastic medium.

Thompson: You’ve always utilized that to your advantage. For you, Queer as Folk was a genuine revival and reinvention of yourself.

Gless: I had to do something. One of my addictions is food, and at the time that Queer ss Folk was out, I was on stage in Chicago, doing a play, and I was almost 200 pounds. Fortunately, people hired me anyway, and I like to think it’s because of my ability, not my appearance, and someone snuck me the script. I thought, ‘Who will want me on television looking like this?’ Anyway, I called Showtime and said I wanted it. The President at Showtime said, ‘It’s a good idea. I think you’ll bring a little class to the project.’ I said, ‘Jerry, class is not what I had in mind.’ He wanted me to meet the producers because he couldn’t just throw me at them, so I talked to them on the phone. I said, ‘Before I fly out there, do you know what I look like?’ And they said, ‘Yes, we do. We saw you on stage at an AIDs benefit in Los Angeles,’ and I said, ‘Okay, you still want me?’ They were like, ‘Absolutely. It’s not your body we wanted; it’s your heart.’ I thought, ‘Wow, that’s very cool.’ That’s how Debbie Novotny was born. I wore that red wig because I was trying to do everything I could to lose Chris Cagney and not look like people thought I was going to look. I totally changed everything.

Thompson: A lot of people are now all about reinvention in their careers, they want to look different, but did people say to you, ‘Sharon, don’t reinvent yourself because they know you as this, and it will damage that.’

Gless: Did people say that to me? One person did, and that was my husband. He was very upset about the weight gain. I told him I was wearing a big red fuzzy wig, and he said, ‘I think it’s appalling that you’re going on screen looking like this. Everybody’s going to hate it, Sharon. They know you. It’s a big mistake.’ And I said, ‘Well, it’s what I’m doing.’ We went to the screening, my character Debbie came on, and the audience went nuts. They loved her. I had complaints with the director that he was not introducing my character property. He and I had an altercation about it. Anyway, the lights come up, the screening is over, and my husband said, ‘They love you, but that director sure as hell didn’t know how to present you.’ I was trying to tell the director how to do it, and he wouldn’t listen to me. Anyway, my husband was appalled that I would allow myself to look like that on film.

Thompson: Many people have reached out to you over the years, and you mentioned this earlier to say how you have influenced their lives or, in some cases, helped save their lives. How does that feel, Sharon?

Gless: I would get a lot of mail from Cagney and Lacey saying, ‘I’m joining the force because of you,’ and I wanted to write back to say, ‘Honey, you could get killed. This is just a dramatization.’ On Queer as Folk, I got a lot of mail that said things like, ‘Before I saw the show, I had no life, and more importantly, my best friend never got a chance to see Queer as Folk, and he killed himself. I saw it, and I’m still here. Thank you.’ It gave young men the courage to go and find similar friends and learn that there are many people out there just like them because they didn’t know it, so they found family who accepted them and loved them. Often young men would ask if they could have a hug. No matter where I was, in the market or anywhere, I’d say, ‘Sure, of course.’ There was this one boy in New York, and he said, ‘Could I have a hug?’ I said, ‘Of course, you can,’ I held him, and he started sobbing. He sobbed his whole body, and he didn’t stop. It went on for several minutes, and I didn’t let him go because I thought about the damage done to this boy. I could feel it. He cried himself out, and then I let him go. Doing the show, I was being educated as to the pain that people go through when they don’t belong and don’t think they’ll ever belong anywhere. I was the winner in that show because I learned so much and could give to people who felt lonely and lost. It’s not because I’m so brilliant, but it gave every lost boy and girl a home, and they’ve learned there are lots of people out there, and there are families. That was the best of the best.

Thompson: You continue to add to your incredible body of work. Will you be returning to Casualty in the UK as Zsa Zsa?

Gless: Thank you for remembering that one. I don’t know. I did three series for them, but I was initially only invited to do one. They asked me to come back for two more years, and then Covid hit, and the character, Zsa Zsa Harper-Jenkinson, disappeared.

Thompson: I know you love Hacks. You’d be a great addition to that cast. And they are doing a third season.

Gless: I think that’s over now? I didn’t miss one episode of the first two seasons. I was thrilled to see Jean Smart rise in a magnificent role like that. She’s such an outstanding actress, but I had never really had the chance to see that complicated hysterical work. I’m a huge fan. I’m sure we worked from the same network at some time, but I don’t remember ever having the pleasure of meeting her. It’s my favorite show on the air because of the writing and her expertise. She’s just an incredible talent.

Thompson: Is there anything you haven’t managed to do that is still on your list? What is yet to be written in the book of Sharon Gless?

Gless: I think I have one more series in me. That’s what I’m capable of. Somebody did an interview with me and asked, ‘Did you know that you have more series than any other woman in television?’ I said, ‘I didn’t know that.’ They said, ‘You have nine series. Only one woman has beaten you out, and it is Betty White. She has ten.’ I was like, ‘Okay, there’s a goal. I’m going to match Betty and do one more.’ So, I’d like to do one more.

Apparently There Were Complaints, published by Simon and Schuster, is available in paperback from Tuesday, November 29, 2022.