‘I Really Believe That Love Is A Miracle When It Happens’

Past Lives director Celine Song is back with what already feels like an all-time classic romantic drama, Materialists.

Song’s feature debut and critically acclaimed Past Lives earned many awards and countless nominations in 2023, including a nomination for Best Picture at the Oscars. With Materialists, which features a stellar cast including Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal, Song cements her work in the tradition of classic romance films by legendary filmmakers such as Nora Ephron or James L. Brooks.

Song shot Materialists in 35mm which, combined with her precise and elegant writing, gives the movie a classy and comforting atmosphere. In her new film, Song questions modern dating and the impact that money -and therefore the lack of- can have on romantic relationships.

I caught up with Song who was in Paris, at the Champs-Elysées Film Festival, where she was presenting Materialists to the French audience. Paris and New York can be regarded as twin cities to a certain extent and many romance movies have been shot in the city of love in the past, so I asked the filmmaker if she might consider shooting a future project in Paris.

She said, “Oh my God! That’s so sweet! I mean Paris is such an inspiring city, I feel like I would love to make something here, that sounds so amazing. I know the French crew is so strong, and cinema is such a powerful center here, so I would love that, that sounds so fun!”

She added: “I was thinking about sharing Materialists here last night, and it’s kind of the same concerns in the way that we have to be both so romantic and cynical just to survive here. Like, to live in a city like New York and I can imagine Paris, you have to believe that it’s your home and there’s so much romance in it, but it’s because it’s so hard to live here. The quality of living is so low, and it is so hard to pay rent, so you have to believe in the dream. Living in New York is a dream, but to survive there you also have to be realistic and practical and cynical too. So, that’s why I think New York was the perfect setting for Materialists, and sharing it with the Paris audience, there are so many things that resonate here because there are twin cities.”

In Materialists, Johnson portrays Lucy, a New York matchmaker who finds herself in a love triangle when she meets Harry (Pedro Pascal), a charismatic and successful man. The same night, she reconnects with her ex-boyfriend, John (Chris Evans), an aspiring theatre actor.

Lucy sees love and marriage as a “business transaction” and as the logical consequence of non-negotiables, such as height, age and income. In Lucy’s job, all these data must be taken into account to satisfy her client’s needs. And when a date doesn’t go as planned for her clients, Lucy has a motto, “Upward and onward.” There’s no time to dwell or feel sorry for oneself, life goes on and so does the dating market.

“So much of the movie is about how much we objectify each other and ourselves. And one of the most important lines in the film is ‘I’m not merchandise, I’m a person.’ So part of this ‘Onward and upwards’ is the way that we are always being asked to think about ourselves as an object that has value, and we always have to improve our value. So it’s a corporate language, but we’re talking about a personal, romantic rejection. And when Lucy says that, she’s trying to turn it into a corporate idea,” Song told me.

When a movie mentions money a lot, things can soon start to feel very pragmatic, cold, and anti-romantic. However, Song’s writing of those themes, especially through Lucy’s point of view, which is her fear of being stuck in a relationship where money might become a problem, manages to create the most romantic lines and scenes in the movie.

Song said, “I feel like it’s about the way we introduce the language of money, which is very cold. So the most romantic lines in this movie, and it’s only possible because the movie is called Materialists, are lines such as ‘Deal’ or ‘How would you like to make a very bad financial decision?’ Those lines feel like they could be from The Wolf of Wall Street, but the truth is that, of course they are the most romantic lines in the film. So much of it is about the acceptance of it, how much this language has become a part of the way we talk about love.”

We then talked about how much the characters in the film mention money, compared to how very little French people talk about money, especially during a date.

Song said, “We think about the fact that it is impolite to talk about money, and I always have to ask the follow up question, ‘Who is it impolite for ?’”

For the director, people might regard this topic as impolite because they don’t want to reveal themselves with numbers.

She added: “We should talk about that thing that is a little bit taboo, like it’s not really polite in the U.S. either, but because of how much economic pressure everybody is under, even the taboo things are out. Lucy offers it openly, she’s like ‘I make $80K a year!’ And what that does, is that it put us in a position where we have to accept that we either make more than her or less. And the truth is most of us make less.”

But what about true love? True connection? Those are the questions Song tries to answer regarding modern dating.

She said, “This is something I learned while I was working as a matchmaker. Something that I was really shocked by is that behind closed doors, in a way that they would not speak of, in front of anyone else, clients were telling me all the numbers that they wanted and that were their non-negotiables like height, weight, age, income. There’s a very specific way that people say ‘I will not date somebody who is over 30.’ Or ‘I will not date somebody under 6 feet tall.’”

She added: “But what happened? Dating was supposed to be a game we all played in the pursuit of love. I had just got married, and it seemed to me that love or even marriage had nothing to do with these numbers. If I ask my husband, ‘Why do you love me?’ I don’t think he will say a single number.”

For Song, love “won’t have anything to do with numbers, it will always be simpler.”

She added: “It’s about the way we are animals, and we are beyond numbers. In the middle of all that, we’re going to completely lose sight of what it is like to actually have a proper connection and have a proper miracle happen. Because I really believe that love is a miracle when it happens, and it’s mysterious as a miracle, and it’s an ancient mystery.”

In recent interviews, Song mentioned that she does not believe in love at first sight, but in love at first conversation. Watching Materialists, I saw Pascal’s character, the “Unicorn” as Lucy’s love at first sight and Evans’ character as love at first conversation. When one of Lucy’s client is assaulted during a date, the only person Lucy wants to talk to is John, even though she is dating Harry. She calls her ex-boyfriend in tears, while he sits on the ground, listen to her and is simply there for her in the moment. I asked Song about the writing of this scene, and particularly the heartache and longing that emanates from that moment.

She said, “Harry and Lucy, they do in a way, fall in love at first conversation, but as business partners, right? When you think about the way that they meet, and Harry undresses her and her job, to really assess her value as a working person, that really speaks about the way the two of them connect. And of course, with Lucy and John, what you realize is that there are a couple of kids or something. There is a part of that where there is no reason, it’s ‘I just like hearing your voice, I just like talking to you and that’s it. I don’t have anything to offer beyond that. But when I think about you, I just want to spend time with you. I just know I could do this forever.’ So it’s a very different thing, but it’s the only thing.’’

Song added: “When Lucy says, ‘Love has to be on the table,’ sometimes, the response to my movie is ‘I am single, are you saying that in order for me to not be single, I have to lower my standards?’ and my response is that I would never ask anyone to lower their standards when it comes to a thing that you are entitled to. And the thing that you are entitled to, it’s not height, it’s not weight, it’s not age or income. The only thing that you’re entitled from the person who loves you, is that they love you. Love is the only thing you’re entitled to from the person who loves you.”

Song shared how concerned she is that love or the idea of a romantic relationship and the value of it all might be questioned. She said, “I feel like the value of love is constantly questioned in the way that no one seems to question the value of a Birkin bag. No one seems to be asking ‘Why does this bag cost five times someone’s salary? How can that be?’ No one asks that question, but the thing that people are constantly wondering is ‘Well, is love even worth it?’ And to me that’s the most heartbreaking thing. And I think, the way we’re moving away from love is the way we are moving away from being humans. That’s why the line ‘I’m not merchandise, I’m a person’ is such an important line in the film. And it’s a line I’m always going back to.”

In Past Lives, Song wrote about the Korean term “Inyeon”, which is a word used to describe providence, fate and the connection we have with each other, even with a stranger on the street. So are Lucy and John each other’s “Inyeon”?

During a gorgeously shot and perfectly paced sequence where Lucy and John crash a wedding, they start dancing to Baby Rose’s original song for the film, That’s All. The connection between the two characters is so palpable and we are so completely immersed in this romantic scene that we almost forget that it’s not actually their wedding.

“Oh my God, Baby Rose is the best! What a completely romantic song, you know, it’s just that, ‘That’s all!’”

Song also explained that she wanted to ask the question, “What is love worth?”

She said, “The less we talk about it, the less we’re gonna feel like human beings and that’s when we start losing our value, just like love is. That, to me, is really the impulse behind this movie.”

She added: “A person might be able to experience the miracle, which is to love someone. The movie is so much about the objectification and qualification of each other. And what we know about the objectification of a human being, is that it’s always going to be dehumanization. That’s also connected to what Harry does to his body. That’s just something I really wanted to talk about, I’m very concerned about it, and it’s worthy of a conversation.”